I can’t understand why Alaska voted GWB. Ain’t Alaska going to vanish in the next 4 years due to global warming etc?

too depressing to contemplate… i’ll be continuing my expat life for a while more then! (oh, and re: alaska — most of them welcome the drilling b/c they want the money… short-termist perhaps, but there you go…)

Well with GWB, we’re all screwed. Ah well … good battle anyway.

At least that gives me four more years to come and visit….if we’re still allowed to travel outside the country.

Sigh.

How do you think *I* feel, Kris? IN gave 60% of its votes to GWB. I feel frustrated, ashamed, and robbed. I waited in line 1.5 hours for THAT? When my Grandmother discovered whom I voted for, she said, “I don’t see how you can call yourself a Christian and still vote for that jerk, Kerry.”

Big. Heavy. Sigh.

Major disappointment. Dunno, guess it’s time to give up on this whole Democratic Party thing. We just can’t play anymore. Who knows, maybe something will happen in Ohio. But still, no popular vote, even, this time. Whatever remains of the Dem. party, I hope they figure out how to put some fire in people again.

Yeah, well, I live in a state that has 2, yes 2 electoral votes and they always go RED. I voted for Kerry because I cant stand Bush, but… I was like….part of only 25% of my state. I am just as sick over the whole thing. Pisses me off to be honest.

The Supreme Court situation is what scares me the most. And let’s not forget that the GOP snapped up a few more congressional seats…

Damn this handbasket.

Maybe some of you whiners should consider running for office – you seem to think you have all the answers….

Wow! That’s awesome, Anonymous. Maybe you should have the balls to list your name and then we can talk about answers. Coward.

To Moire – I was at a church in my fiance’s hometown last Sunday, where the pastor went off on a rousing political tangent in the opening prayer, which included a statement about how Democrats “hate OUR god.” I was in so much shock I couldn’t convince my legs to walk right out. I just sat there and prayed to have the peace of mind to not judge an entire congregation on what one misguided leader says…despite the fact that he just passed a sweeping, extremely harsh judgment on ME and 49% of my country.

(In related news, I celebrate the fact that Kerry won the particular swing state this church was in.)

I can’t fathom that the attitude nowadays in the US is that it’s only possible to believe in God if you’re a Republican. Not only that, moral values now apparently = pre-emptive war and a disregard for human rights and equality both nationwide and abroad.

I don’t buy the exit polls. Nobody asked *me* (or anyone that I know who voted, for that matter) what was most important.

And one more additional comment…someone in Bush’s camp in Ohio said that Kerry should “be a good American and concede now.” I can’t believe that after all the pressure of telling everyone how much their vote counts, the advice is now to leave 250,000 provisional ballots in Ohio alone.

For some unknown reason, for the second year in a row in California, my ballot has ended up being a provisional one. And I can wholeheartedly say that if some asshole said “don’t worry, counting her little pink envelope isn’t going to change things” there would be an uproar! I would riot. It doesn’t matter if it won’t change the outcome. I think waiting it out is the good American thing to do. That’s what we’ve been talking about this entire election. It shouldn’t ever be fair or right or good to leave any vote uncounted. (Even if there is this ridiculous electoral college business.)

Okay. I think I’m done. I invite Anonymous to BRING IT ON.

I must have missed the memo that said that social justice and helping the unfortunate are no longer considered moral, whereas a costly and unecessary wars and resticting civil rights are A-OK. Being a Christian isn’t supposed to be about judging others. A lot of good “morals” will do you when you lose your jobs, the bank forecloses on your farms, and your kids gets killed in Iraq. Are the majority of American people really that dumb? Sadly, the answer appears to be yes. When is the rural midwest and south going to realize that they are nothing more than pawns for the rich and powerful corporate republicans?

OMG, Kerry conceded. I think I’m going to throw up.

More on the “moral” bit. I’m not sure what bothers me more: Americans who think that Bush is moral just because he’s Repulican and speaks as if everything is a clear choice between “good and evil” or the fact that they are so afraid of gay marriage that they want to keep him in office.

I spent last night and most of this morning very very sad and seriously thinking of the Canadian option. Now I’m just pissed off and trying to figure out how those millions and millions of us who are sad and outraged can take our country back!

Let me know if you hear of any US History professorships opening up Down There…

Thanks for the comments, everybody. I can’t imagine what it must be like for you all over there. At least I got to wake up this morning and think “It’s over.” Sure, I might have to discuss it at the shop today with anybody that recognizes my accent, but I don’t have to go through my day with the knowledge that 50% of the population is gloating that their dickhead puppet won. I can’t think of a single Australian (outside of John Howard) who’ll be anything but sympathetic about this. I can try to forget about it. (At least for the next two weeks, til I have to fly home to Indiana. Grrrr. Stupid red state Indiana.)

I have to admit, Beau, that my initial reaction last night was one of complete anger. I thought about cancelling the wedding. Childish, I know, but there’s still a part of me that resents participating in an institution that the fundies and Bush claim as their own. I don’t want to be part of their demographics. Dubya fills me with such rage that I want to spite all of them. I want to become a crack whore on welfare. I want to be a transexual bigamist. I want to donate my eggs for gay couples and stem cell research. Gahhhh…

But that is a bit childish, isn’t it? (Except for the eggs part. You guys can have some if you want!) Saying we were gonna get married seemed to make so many folks happy… and there’s not a lot for 49% to feel happy about right now. So for now, it’s still on… just as long as any smug ass-faced conservative doesn’t congratulate me on it.

This isn’t my country any more. Seriously, if I had the money, I’d be out of here in a heartbeat.

Edit: It was called “The Power of Nightmares” ..ooops.

“I want to become a crack whore on welfare” – Kris

That was hilarious!
In Japan. we skipped the religious wedding ceremony and just registered our marriage. Were supposed to be a catholic/protestant couple but we are really atheists.

another silver lining is that all the comics will still have lots of material for the next 4 years….

P.S.:
aim, if that is true – your church could be fined and lose tax-exempt status if they are caught.

You people are hilarious. Democracy worked, accept it, your not leaving the country, quit being a child. But you are entertaining.

“All I can say is those stupid Mid-western cud-chewers can go FUCK their moral values.”

Ahh, there’s the compassionate liberalism we’ve all come to love.

So, explain then what does it feel like to live with such hate? The decision is final, I’m so sorry to say, for all of you who choose to mourn this loss for John Kerry. It’s one thing to stand strong about what you believe and verbalize that but quite another criticize and minimalize the importance of conservative values of myself, my family, parts of your own respective families…you don’t even know me. This site seems to be largely a place where everyone who thinks alike can come and bitch about the need for change (to the people who hold similar viewpoints)…a nice neat forum for complacency completely unable to reach the people you wish to influence because of the raw hatred. And hmmm…that makes me really wonder why in the world poor “anonymous” didn’t have the balls to leave their name. Perhaps because they knew you were going to insult them by essentially calling their literacy and grammar skills into question…obviously they have a different opinion than yourselves when it comes to political agendas. So, does that feel good to insult someone’s intelligence? I sure hope it makes you all warm inside. You don’t even know this person but I’m sure they’ll thoroughly respect your grammar lesson and also remember your kindness. I don’t think that comment about the person’s literacy would have been made face to face so why do that here? And no, I am not “anonymous” by the way–this is my first post. Here’s a prime example of the general mood of this whole forum. You have this choice:

Post anonymously no yes

But it’s not really a choice is it? Because you have to choose “no”, otherwise your comment is disrespected (along with the obvious political difference of opinion). Wouldn’t it make more sense to care about the person rather than the grammar?

I just want to issue the challenge to keep it peaceful. I’m going to assume that just because the vast majority of persons posting on this site are liberal thinkers that everyone still holds to the idea that we cannot progress at all while we are divided. Furthermore, degradation and insult to something as important as someone’s morals and personal beliefs will only serve to expand the divide which I would hope we all strive to bring together in our daily lives…by the way we live, express ourselves, and relate to both friends and strangers. I can’t see how these posts are a compassionate representation of the liberal ideology in any way. All I hear is hate…hate towards anything that is not so-called “progressive ” thinking. I live in the U.S. and I am proud of most things about this country (not all, most). To those who obviously don’t want to be here…move. Stop groaning. Either that or take worthwhile strides for change. To those who feel that gay marriage is the biggest issue in politics right now…push for change. And finally to that one person (who I’m sure was angry at the time) who believes “stupid Mid-western cud-chewers can go FUCK their moral values”…if you really believe you’re so very elite why don’t you explain to this stupid Mid-westerner why she should go “fuck” her moral values. I’d love to hear why you might say something of that nature and what brought you to that conclusion. I am an educated 22 year old woman who has strong opinions about lots of issues… I try to look at things with an open mind and my moral values and faith are the driving force of my life. Those values and my faith do not mean that I cannot make educated decisions about things that affect my future…but then again I don’t make decisions based on what you or anyone else thinks…I make my decisions based on what I think and I’m sure that you don’t make your decisions on what I think. Because this is a DEMOCRACY where the DIFFERENT VOICES are heard. Why can’t we talk about WHY things should be a certain way rather than having a great time attacking everything that we don’t agree with? Kris, I AM going to congratulate you on your marriage when I get to meet you in the states at Amy’s wedding, not because I’m interested in what gay marriage has to do with your marriage, or stem cell research, or crack whores, or transexual bigomists but because I am just going to want to congratulate you human to human so I hope that you don’t think I look too smug when you imagine I’m thinking about Dubya’s next run at the White House. And finally, this is where this Mid-Western cud-chewer gets her motivation and inspiration:

“I know how to live when I am poor, and I know how to live when I have plenty. I have learned the secret of being happy at any time in everything that happens, when I have enough to eat and when I go hungry, when I have more than I need and when I do not have enough. I can do all things through Christ because he gives me strength”. Phillipians 4:12-13

Go ahead and remain in “utter, utter disbelief” about moral values and how they influence our society. You don’t have to listen to the frickin polls. Who gives a rip. What’s important to you and why? And keep it dignified–who do you plan to reach when you push people away? Continue to make your sweeping generalizations and I’m sure you’ll come to the conclusion that the world is eternally unjust…I mean really, who would think that as a society we would value our morals more than anything else? For shame.

Construct some peaceful differences folks but don’t destroy those who can’t agree.

Ok, time out kids. Let’s declare a truce! I hope that all of you expats remember that the country that you’re bashing is still home (where mom & dad and other family members live!)….

Ma, if I didn’t still consider it home and worth fighting for I’d never be bashing the election results in the first place…

And Amy, my “only republicans can be good people” was mostly about my interpretation of your story about the church guy. Anybody who insists that all Christians must vote Republican is silly. I just fear that a lot of people made that JESUS=BUSH connection without putting any critical thought into it. I was just trying to counter that by pointing out that there were serveral good, moral, even religious people in the discussion disagreeing with that equation.

As for arguing at the wedding, “duh.” I don’t discuss this stuff with randoms in public anymore than you do, and I won’t do anything to ruin your special day. I reserve the right to come on here each night and rant away though… 🙂

Wow, what a discussion we have here! What I have always appreciated about this site is that ANYONE is free to offer an opinion or comment on anything he/she wishes. The table is open, so to speak, and anyone is allowed to state their personal opinion, but also–social etiquette also demands listening to others. It’s just plain common courtesy. Not to mention the fact that we will never sharpen our views if they are never challenged or questioned. In kindergarten, for pete’s sake, I teach children to value difference as being an asset that will make us sharper and stronger. I have to say that I disagree with the statement that it is merely a place where like-minded people gather and “bitch” I appreciate the coming together of different minds and different ways of thinking from various walks of life to discuss important matters. Where else in the world does that happen? Honestly, wasn’t freedom of expression and opinion the original reason for the founding of this nation? Yes, the matter was religious freedom in that instance, but in all reality, it was a difference of opinion. I think there were high emotions on both sides of the fence of this election. I think if the results would have been different, there may have been heated discussion over why THAT election was unreasonable and ill-thought by most voters. The harsh reality is that we are now a split nation and we have choices to make on how to proceed from this place. I appreciate this forum and the freedom I am given to state my opinion as well as compare them to the opinions of others because if forces me to evaluate my stance.

I really like the line about picking and choosing which parts of the bible you want to believe, seems to me if ya believe you believe it all and if ya dont then ya dont. Funny thing is I dont remember the pastor mentioning that option in church, but then again I suppose he probably voted for Bush anyway. Maybe when you grow up and finally become an adult you will realize that you cant choose what to believe just because it fits your mood for the day, its a clear choice and if ya arent prepared to make it than stop pretending like you care.

You’re so right, Anonymous. Truly religious people shouldn’t get to pick and choose what part of the Bible they believe. I assume you eschew the eating of shellfish then, and shall we assume your presence at the next stoning of adulterers?

(That was sarcasm.)

Thanks to Aragorn and everyone who’s contributed to the discussion. Especially Moire, because I think it’s so important to show that it’s okay to change your mind about Bush (or anything political, for that matter). This isn’t picking a football team and then sticking with them. It’s about making rational choices, and in the real world, people change their minds. (That’s why I didn’t get that it was bad that Kerry was a “flip-flopper.” Only fundamentalists and loonies never change their mind as they grow up and experience new things.)

Oh, and wacky Libertarian girl? We need to arrange a time to meet up before Thanksgiving for a real world beer! (See, I have no problems with Christians and Conservatives, because Moire can spell and she’s smart. And she knows where to find all the best Harry Potter slash. I have no political requirements for friendship; only intellectual.)

I think Democrats will be back in 4 years. Bush was an incumbent and I think that worked in his favor in a lot of ways no one is really talking about. I don’t really buy the moral majority thing. It just doesn’t hold water; as we’ve discussed, there is nothing more or less inherently moral about Democrats and Republicans. Those are just two BS parties designed so that politicians can receive bribes more efficiently. The Democrats will regroup and hopefully come out with a real message that will draw people back in. It’s gonna be the Democratic Contract for America and hopefully it will be about real, far-reaching reform. In my fantasy land, Democrat has nothing to do with it–getting rid of parties would be part of the reform. But it would take a major political earthquake to break the parties’ grip on our democracy. Final sidenote, there’s a total other Dan that’s going to be “in the family” so I am changing the name I post with. I usually go by Danny anyways.